faq


Forum, Anecdotes and Frequently Asked Questions

The prime purpose of the website is enable our members and other interested parties, to have access to our ancient records which previously could only be examined on the day of the Competition itself by looking through our hand written Record Books or visiting The Public Records Office at Northallerton in North Yorkshire. We will try to answer and feature relevant questions about the Society in general but any correspondence regarding other aspects of the Society should be addressed to The Clerk whose address can be found on the Contacts page. Other items of correspondence that appear do so if they are thought they may be of general interest to members.	email the Editor

The prime purpose of the website is enable our members and other interested parties, to have access to our ancient records which previously could only be examined on the day of the Competition itself by looking through our hand written Record Books or visiting The Public Records Office at Northallerton in North Yorkshire.

We will try to answer and feature relevant questions about the Society in general but any correspondence regarding other aspects of the Society should be addressed to The Clerk whose address can be found on the Contacts page.

Other items of correspondence that appear do so if they are thought they may be of general interest to members.

email the Editor

Question....		Answer....

Dear Phil I just thought I would drop you a line to tell you that an original copy of Ben Hirds book ‘The Scorton Arrow’ is now being offered for sale on eBay if anyone’s interested. I already have an original copy myself which over the years I have had signed by each new Captain. I know the book is rare and out of print so thought some other member would be interested?. Kind regards, Doug		Dear Doug Thanks for your email. Anyone interested here is the link: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=130385755742&ss PageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123 Just click it and it will take you to the eBay Auction site. If you are'nt lucky enough to get this original - you can always download a PDF copy version from our website. See 'The Book Club' on our first index page.

Question....		Answer....

Dear Editor Can you tell me who exactly are 'The Council of Captains', when they were formed and their function? I have not been able to find anything in the Records on their formation but a Council by definition is a group that hold meetings and if so, when and are they minuted? I assume they are made up of former Captains? Mark		Dear Mark The first mention of a 'Society of Captains' (not a 'Council') was in 1968. (See 1968 record) It was proposed by Frank Newbould (Capt 1951) that a 'Society of past Captains' be formed to organise any future meetings if the new Captain and Lieutenant were unable to do so for any reason. Frank tells me that it was in case both the new Captain or Lieutenant were both taken ill - or worse, and was a precautionary measure. Since then a number of occasions have arisen where former Captains have been asked by members to decide on certain issues: for example, which of five submitted designs for the 300th Centennial Badge to chose as all the members at the meeting couldn't unanimously agree. Their opinions are usually sought by the Clerk writing to them and not as formally minuted meeetings as such.

Question....		Answer....

Dear Phil I'm shortly to have an operation on my shoulder which will put me out of action and I wont be able to draw a bow for a long time whilst my arm is in a sling. I still intend to come to the Scorton, with my pals and meet up with old friends over lunch but under the rules, unless I shoot with the Captain I would not be able to attend the annual meeting because of a temporary disability, which is somewhat discriminating given the number of years of allegiance to the Society. Is there any way an exception can be made and if so, what's the best way to go about it? Ian		Dear Ian The exact rule to which you refer is: "16 The annual meeting is held after the Luncheon. Only those who have shot the bow with the Captain in the morning session may stay and attend the meeting. The Captain acts as Chairman and it is usual for the Lieutenant to read the Minutes of the last meeting which are signed by the Captain after agreement by those present. The Clerk shall make notes of the meeting to assist the Captain". Do what a couple of our older members do. Enter competition. Shoot as many or as few arrows as you are able (any member of this number would help you given the circumstances) even if the arrow only travelled a few feet, you have still shot the bow with the captain - and then could retire. A couple of octogenarians already do this because of their 'less agile ability' and long may they continue to be a part of our proceedings. In the 1800's, after attending for 70+ years, Matthew Greathead aged 94 was pushed up and down in a bathchair. Do you think anyone crass enough would tell him he could not attend anymore? Now enough of these excuses - just be there with a bow. You have one arm - we'll just have to lend you the other!

Question....		Answer....

Dear Editor What is the procedure should I wish to raise something at the Society of Archers AGM this year? Do I need to put something in writing or do I simply make it known on the day? Cheers! Steve		Dear Steve Proposals, which should be seconded, should be put in writing and sent to The Clerk. It would be then given to the Captain who acts as Chairman (sometimes the Captain can request that the Clerk deputises for him) and be read out at the AGM. Officially, any proposal that may implement a change in the Rules would need to be advertised in accordance with Rule 6 of the Revised Rules of 1823. Historically, being a totally democratic Society; during the AGM, the Captain / Chairman asks if any member wishes to raise anything under ‘any other business’. Here members have an opportunity to raise issues and gauge whether or not it would be worthwhile to make a formal proposal. There are two main things, especially for new Members, to remember before making any Proposal. 1. The Antient Silver Arrow and the Society of Archers have run successfully since 1673 with very few changes. The consensus of opinion by most Members is: “Why change a successful recipe that has lasted almost unaltered for over 300 years? 2. Sometimes an issue may require further investigation by looking back through the Society Record, where it has most likely already been raised before.

Dear Phil Not so much a question but more of a suggestion to fellow Members of the Society. Like all the membes attending the the 300th Recorded Tournament, I was delighted to receive the 300th Commemorative Badge and will treasure the badge always. I have decided to get my name engraved on the back along with my post code, so that if I should accidently loose it, it could then be identified as mine and hopefully returned to me. John Catley (Little John Arrows) Worksop		Dear John What a good idea! ....Just like your arrows - bank on target, somtimes! I'll be sure to pass this on to our fellow members through the website.

Dear Society of Archers Can I confirm to you that the mention of 'cursing' on the front page of your website is not a rumour! The Football Association does indeed have such a similar rule., under Players Misconduct Rule 3 item 1. A Participant shall at all times act in the best interests of the game and shall not act in any manner which is improper or brings the game into disrepute or use any one, or a combination of, violent conduct, serious foul play, threatening, abusive, indecent or insulting words or behaviour. I cannot confirm, or for that matter even deny, whether we took the lead from The Society of Archers, as the FA was not formed until 1863, making you the more senior body by 190 years. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed looking through your website and your long history and wish you all your members all the very best for the future. Long may your flourish. Please be sure to visit us anytime at www.thefa.com Tom Harold The Football Association Brand Manager.		Dear Tom Thanks for your email. I am sticking with our side of the story. Fine any players that curse a whole pound - that will teach them!. Though I cannot recommend allowing them to drink on the field of play. There have been times at our competition when a player 'has not quite given of his best' when this is the practise! Being as we are the more senior body - don't hesitate to get in touch with us anytime if you need any other help with how to do things proper. Long may the FA flourish too and thank you very much for writing.

Dear Phil Thoroughly enjoyed my first Scorton an amazing experience that I will certainly repeat. Cannot get over the gentlemanly approach and being at your honour to mark your own score card, unheard of at any other event I have ever been to. Can you tell me, to your knowledge has anyone ever breached this trust of honour and if so what was the outcome?. Nick		Scoring your own card is normal in the Scorton. Most other competitions assume people could cheat, hence 'double checking' methods may be deployed. The Antient Scorton Silver Arrow is of course only open to gentlemen - and as such do not cheat, so the tradition remains unaltered as befits gentlemen, men of honour. That being said and sad to say that a cheater was once discovered. The cad went into the score tent and was heard to give a false score by someone who had been on the same target. Enquiries were made discreetly and following a second occurrence he was ordered from the field of play by the judges. A generous decision was made not to publicly name and shame him in the minutes of the AGM but he was banned for life and his name erased from all records. His profession? - He was a police officer but certainly not a gentleman. Editors note: END - no more questions on this topic.

Sir Is it possible please to check on the providence of two Silver Scorton Arrow / Society of Archers Badges advertised for sale by auction on eBay at {link-removed} One is a Lieutenants badge and the other a Captains badge both in silver. These are described as very rare but the seller refuses to reveal the name of their owner except to the successful bidder. Obviously I need to insure I am not bidding on anything stolen or a forgery. Do you have a list of those who have won both the medals or can you help in anyway? J Middleton		Badges for the Lieutenant and the Captain were first introduced in 1950 as a lasting memento of the wearers achievement. In that time, only 12 Members to date have ever won both these prestigious and much treasured medals, wearing them with pride. I very much doubt whether any of those Members who are still alive today would ever contemplate selling their badges under any circumstances, so we can only assume that perhaps the reciprocant is now deceased and being offered for sale by possibly a relative. The names of both the Lieutenants and the Captains are a matter of public record and if you are the successful bidder, no doubt you will learn of the providence which you can check out against our records. I very much doubt that any of our Members would bid on these medals, unless to give them back to The Society and certainly no member would ever wear anything that they had not won for themselves.

I am looking to trace an ancestor called 'name'. Did he ever take part in the Ancient Scorton Silver Arrow Tournament? from Hundreds of people!		This is by far the most frequently asked question we receive from people all over the world doing family history research and writing in to ask this very same question. We do not have the resources to carry out individual searches and you would need to look through our records yourself to see if your ancestor is listed there. If you do find your ancestor was a past Member of the Society and wish to submit any information, anecdotes or photographs you feel would be of interest, we would be pleased to hear from you. Good luck with your search.

How do I go about learning Archery and/or can you recommend a good Longbow club?		If you click on the Back arrow at the bottom of this page and go to our links page, you will find links there to both the British Longbow Society and also GNAS. The British Longbow Society is recommended for Longbow enthusiasts. GNAS or the Grand National Archery Society is the UK National Archery body and they have an on-line searchable by area database of archery clubs in the UK. Not all 'GNAS' Archery Clubs shoot in the traditional Longbow however so you may need to check first.

Can anyone and / or how do I become a Member of The Society of Archers?		Membership is open to all Gentlemen Archers aged over 21 who enter in to the Competition and agree to abide by the Rules. Please hit the 'back' arrow at the bottom of this page and go the Competition Entry Pages for a Guidance Notes and an Entry Form.

In these days of sexual equality and political correctness, why do you exclude women from taking part in your competition and is this something that could be addressed in the future at one of your meetings? D. Barton London		The majority of all sporting competitions are single sex events; from bowls to tennis, golf to gymnastics and just about every event in the Olympic Games. A very similar and well supported competition called the Ascham Arrow Trophy is a ladies only event and shot at a shorter 80 yard distance. We cannot envisage a change to this established practice but in another 300 years, who knows!.

I am writing an article on Archery and write to ask if I can use some of the material from your website and maybe a few of the pictures please? A R Mundy Rutland Archers		This question is dealt with already in several places on the website., most notably on the 'Press Release' in the History section and in the 'Legal Notice' link on 1st index page.. You are free to use any reference or pictures from our website providing such material is credited with "© Society of Archers". No payment is required as such, though a voluntary contribution from Professional Fee earning Journalists or News Mediums would be welcome to the charity: Harrogate Women's Aid Group., 46 East Parade, Harrogate, HG1 5RR.

What type of bows are allowed in the competition? Is it just Longbows. Do you allow Recurves with sights and stabiliser or Compound Bows? Tim Edwards		Please see the Entry Rules for fuller information. Traditional English Longbow and Flat Bows are allowed., along with modern Recurves and their sights and stabiliser. Compound bows with their assisted pulley mechanism are not allowed.

Can 'foreigners' take part in the famous Antient Scorton Silver Arrow Competition? I am Australian but was born in Cumbria, England and I would be traveling from Australia to take part? How do I go about joining the Society and can you help me by providing some details of hotel accommodation near to the venue if I am permitted to enter? D.F. Sydney, Australia.		Yes - 'foreigners' can take part, subject to the Rules. We even let Archers from Lancashire enter! If you won the Arrow you could not take it out of the County though. Start by looking through the Guidance Notes for Competitors and then completing the Entry Form and sending it to The Captain before the closing date. All these are downloadable from our website, along with location maps to the venue and details on accommodation, hotels etc in the local area. Traveling such a long distance to take part in our Competition would ensure you receive a very warm welcome from our members and be sure to be mentioned in the Societies Records! We hope we may have the pleasure of your company and wish you a safe journey if you do decide to come.

I use to be a member of the Bowmen of Nidderdale and entered in to a club competition to win a place to compete in the Antient Scorton Silver Arrow Competition. I am no longer a member of the club so can I take part again without winning at club level? Also am I still a Member of the Society or do I need to rejoin, if so, how? The last time I came was in 1982 and it was held at Scorton - I finished 7th and it was really good to see my name in the records on the website, which I think is fantastic. Les Ellington.		I assume this must have been something that your old club did independently to choose its best archers to send to the Competition. It is not necessary to 'win' a place at club level before you can enter in to the Scorton Competition. Membership of The Society, so the Clerk tells me, only exists on the day of the Competition itself. That being said, many Members have been attending for years and whilst officially we may only be Members for a day - once a Member, always a Member is how most of us see ourselves. I hope we may have the pleasure of seeing you again soon, though you'll probably need a better excuse than this for not attending for the past 20 years!

Dear Society of Archers I am presently researching for an article on Lancashire Societies and I wonder if you can fill a gap in my notes? Does John of Gaunt's Bowmen still exist and if so, do you have a contact name. If the organisation has ceased to exist, would you know of anyone whom I could contact regarding its history? Regards & thanks, Professor F Trowman email address: intercuff@ftrowman.freeserve.co.uk		I have passed your details forward to John Geldard in Lancashire who besides being an excellent Longbow man is a highly skilled bowyer and knows all about Lancasterian Archery Groups. In the meantime, if anyone else can help Professor Trowman with his research, please write direct to his email address.

Dear Society of Archers I would take issue with your claim that you host 'The World longest established recorded Sporting Event'. The Kipling Cotes Derby Horserace goes right back to 1513 and is held each year in Yorkshire - that is a 160 years older than your Antient Scorton Silver Arrow! Yours Alan Kind		Dear Alan Yes - and a great Sporting tradition it is too, usually held on the 3rd Thursday in March - at 'Shrovetide'. I believe however that it was 'thought' to have started in 1519 but apart from just one mention of a race in 1555 there are no other records until the 18th century when it became a regular fixture in the Racing Calendar. The Kiplingcotes Derby has not been held continuously each year, whereas apart from various war years, The Antient Scorton Arrow has been almost continuous since 1673. Our records go right back to 1673, proving our claim to the longest recorded sporting events in the world. At least these two great sporting events are held in Yorkshire, so long may they both continue and flourish. Further details can be found at www.wicstun.com/derby.

Dear Society of Archers, Living adjacent to a field in the Lune Valley which has recently been used for practice by a local archer, it brought back memories of being taught the basics by Ben Hird when I was about 12 years of age - 46 years ago. By chance I found your website and was excited to find mention of Ben Hird and read his book with interest The Antient Scorton Arrow which I was able to download from your website (marvelous, thank you). Ben Hird patiently taught me (and generously gave me a bow) lived in residential caravan at Overstone Solarium Caravan Park, Overstone, Northampton and my parents owned the caravan parked next to his. I recall with amusement that when arriving at our caravan, Ben would sometimes appear and very apologetically mention that he had inadvertently perforated my parents caravan with the odd stray arrow! He kindly patched up the holes with filler but alas, his dexterity with the filler was no match for his talent as an archer! With best regards John Baker		Dear John Thank you very much indeed for sharing your wonderfully amusing story and I think fond memories of 'our' Ben Hird (Captain 1900). Shooting holes in the side of a Caravan - oh errrh! Today that's criminal damage & neighbours from hell all rolled in to one. Thank goodness your parents saw the funny side too. It would have been around 1959 and Ben would be in his late seventies by then, with obviously a failing eyesight that comes with age! At least Ben made the effort to repair the damage and introduce you to Archery - a small price to pay! Thanks again for sharing your excellent story with us.

Dear Society of Archers,

May I convey my best wishes to you and your Members of the Society of Archers in England.

Your website is a trove of highly interesting details and fascinating facts that I have spent many hours reading and enjoying.

I wonder if I may call on your expertise to try and help me with a problem and source of continual controversy and debate over in here amongst American Archery enthusiasts please?

I am a member of the S.C.A. here in Washington USA. and at present I am restoring a Yew Bow with horn knocks, 72" and 50lbs.

I have all the books but cannot prove conclusively that the genuine traditional English Long Bow were originally fitted with horn nocks. I am in to the arts and science part and wonder if you had an old picture or source of an old painting showing actual evidence of horn nocks?

Hoping you may be able to help. Thank you,

Charley Olenak
Washington USA

Dear Charley,

We cannot always help with technical questions but in an effort to help you, one of our American Archery Cousins, I forwarded your enquiry to Pip Bickerstaffe, one of England's foremost authorities on the Longbow, a highly respected Bowyer and also who helped with the Mary Rose Trust Project (Further details about The Mary Rose can be found on our 'Links' page).

Here is Pip's reply, together with pictures......

Thanks for copying me in with Charley's question to The Society of Archer's website.

I am enclosing three pictures, the original one is from around 1400 though this is a copy painted in around 1500, it clearly shows horn nocks on the bows and the arrows and one or two other interesting bits.

The other two pictures I took at the Mary Rose Trust showing the only horn nock that they have found and the tip of a bow where you can clearly see that a nock was fitted.

All of the ends of the Mary Rose bows are shaped exactly the same such that any horn nock would have fitted either end of any of the bows. Horn nocks were not there for decoration but for the simple fact that, especially with heavier bows, as the bow is shot the string steadily cuts into the wood of the bow and will gradually lead to a lift in the back of the bow, followed by a terminal failure.

Many people who have not had experience of seeing and working with replica war bows do not appreciate that the shock loading on a bow, as the string comes taught after the release of an arrow, is around 4 times the draw weight of the bow, as the string, when braced, is in tension compressing the bow the effect is that the string is literally trying to cut into the wood like a cheese wire, eventually it will succeed!

I have come across several people who are adamant that horn nocks were a decorative feature introduced in the Victorian period, How wrong they are! However, this opinion has appeared in print and has been quoted from to the point that the original opinion is seen to be a fact. The power of print maybe!

Hope this helps and by all means drop me an email or get in touch if I can be of any further assistance.
Best regards, Pip
pip@bickerstaffebows.co.uk

Click on thumbnail picture for enlargement

(1) Painting	(2) Horn nock	(3) Tip of Bow

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